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Project Jenny KLIK - 1st Inf Di v Women in Vietnam RELATED-- To AFVN To Saigon To Vietnam Further Afield Index
From: Steve Zeigler
Sent: January 31, 2014
Subject: Carts
The ITC high-end tape machine was the "99" - dark brown (some black) and heavier than a boat anchor. The 99 came in two parts: - the deck - the electronics with interconnect cable
Also, Fedelipac started with GRAY cartridges, and switched to LIGHT BLUE carts - OR vice-versa. AudioPaks were DARK BLUE cartridges.
Do you remember the Gates ST-101?
From: Garry Brill
Sent: January 31, 2014
Subject: Carts
Great story....never knew the history about the different colored carts. I also remember we had a machine that re-wound tape back on the well used carts. That ITC splice finder and eraser you talked about, I have one of them in my studio. Don't use it anymore, it's just I don't want to get rid of these old memories....plus, who has any use for them anymore. The only item I wish I had kept was an a Gates turntable.....they are hard to find.
I see where you were in Grand Rapids......right before I was drafted I worked at a AM station in Wyoming, Mich. with calls of WERX......think it was at 1530....it was a small daytimer.
GarryB
From: David Gale
Sent: January 30, 2014
Subject: Carts
Re: broadcast cart's and colors.
Here is a good article telling the history of the cartridge machine.
I will double check with my broadcast sales supplier about this, but this is what I remember. Fedelipac sold GRAY cartridges. Later they sold RED using a high output/low noise tape formulation. AudioPak sold BLUE cartridges. 3M sold BROWN cartridges. These were the best cartridges with the best tape formulation. They cost nearly twice as much as the competitors, but the quality was better and the tape seemed to last longer.
Along with the 3M cartridge, ITC developed a high end tape machine that would automatically erase a cartridge, then put tones on the tape to adjust the record head to match the play head and the guides in the cartridge. Then it would erase the tape again and cue up to just past the splice. We did find that many of those earlier cartridges would go out of phase around 9-10 kilohertz brand new out of the box. But when we used the 3M tape, we sounded like we were playing records.
My first station after Vietnam was an all cartridge station for music and commercials in 1969. Soon after arriving in Grand Rapids, I put my new station on all cartridges as well. Later came our first automation system built by the same company that built the automation in Saigon. (Gates Radio/Harris Broadcast) Later we went to all automation and the cartridge systems faded away. ITC was indeed the premium line of cart machines. Spotmaster and ATC were also manufacturers. Others came along but never sold the number of units the ITC did as I best recall.
David Gale
Saigon 68-69
From: Harvey Germinder
Sent: January 30, 2014
Subject: Carts
Garry,
Thanks for the response. One of the other guys reminded me that there were 2 or 3 physical sizes of the Fidelipac carts, depending on the amount of tape that could be loaded and, hence, the max running time.
Regards,
Harvey Geminder
From: Charles Park Steward
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Here are some photos of old broadcast equipment along with an ITC cart machine.
http://videopark.com/oldbroadcast.htm
Best,
Park
From: Roy Burnette
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Carts
I have some of the Filelipac gray... carts... some of them are virtually new. I can spare four. Ffollow up with me at wrgc.com
Roy Burnette
From: Garry Brill
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Carts
Don't know if I have a wide variety....but will check tomorrow and get back with you.
GarryB
From: Steve Zeigler
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Carts
Garry - Your photo looks real familiar - rack-mounted and all - very nice.
As I recall, that line of ITC cart machines was called "Premium".
You said that you have "a lot of extra cards", or do you mean carts ?
If you have extra carts, I would be interested in obtaining four:
1 - Fidelipac GRAY
1 - Fidelipac BLUE
1 - Fidelipac MAROON
1 - any odd broadcast cart
Very willing to pay + S&H.
Let me know,
Steve Zeigler Venice, FL
PS: I did a little looking around with Google and was reminded that some stations used the old MacKenzie decks for ID's and jingles that got a heavy repeat cycle.
From: Garry Brill
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Garry,
Apologies, but never pass up a chance to rib a guy. Do your "real to real machines" reely play only reality program or do the lie once in a while?
Jim
From: Tim Brill
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
I'm still using a cart machine in my production studio. Hard to believe but it's an ITC and the darn thing still works. If anyone else is still using a cart machine, I have a lot of extra cards that I will never use... And by the way, I still use my real to real [sic.] machines
From: Steve Zeigler
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Correct, 3 tracks. Although I remember the earliest cart systems were mono, and I think the cue tone was recorded on the same track as the audio - the 1000 cycle/sec. tone was filtered out by a simple resistor-capacitor network - could be wrong on that. A lot of years have passed over the tape heads since then.
Steve
Oddly, 10 blocks away (in Pittsburgh), KDKA Radio called them "Blue Boxes," and the log entry was "BB-748," for example. Many stations had the original gray carts and later added the blue Fidelipacs. I have seen white, clear, maroon, light blue, dark blue and brown carts over the years from different manufacturers.
The corner posts and the rotten pressure pads were the main problem areas with these carts, but we loved the cart.
I don't think the "8-Track" model ever made it into broadcast studios, at least not on a pro level.
Steve
From: Steve Zeigler
Date: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
From: Tim Abney
Date: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
4-Track consumer carts were nearly indentical to commercial carts. As a result they were far superior to 8-track carts.
I really liked them.
From: Charles Park Seward
Date: January 28, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Broadcast carts had either two tracks (audio and cue) or three tracks (stereo audio and cue).
Best,
Park
From: Charles Park Seward
Date: January 28, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Broadcast carts had either two tracks (audio and cue) or three tracks (stereo audio and cue).
Best,
Park
From: Robert Tucker
Date: January 28, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
I believe the broadcast carts were four track instead of eight.
Robert Tucker
From: Charles Park Seward
Date: January 28, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Yes. One difference is the consumer cartridge had the pinch roller inside where the broadcast cart had an external pinch roller that popped up from the machine. Also, to get to the different tracks, the consumer version moved the play head up and down. The broadcast cart only had one or two (stereo) tracks with a separate cue channel for stopping (with two other tones for various uses). The consumer cart uses a metallic strip spliced into the tape to change tracks.
Best,
Park
From: John Thomas
Date: January 28, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Were the carts based on the old 8-track tap outline?
From: Steve Zeigler
Date: January 28, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Did you ever notice that the size a standard hard drive is very close to the size of an audio cart? They are the exact same width - and almost the same height. The HDD is a bit longer, and of course heavier. The very first cart machines I saw were made by Collins (3 rack-mounted), and were visible in the street-level, showcase studios of 1410-KQV in downtown Pittsburgh. This was when I was still in high school.
Audio Carts
January 2014
AFVN Group Conversations
The Gates ST-101 was an interesting concept but it never went very far. Note the Wollensak tape recorder behind the MIC and the purple felt on the tuntables..
Steve
WGUS-1380 -- Augusta. GA. <aom studio with Gates-101 tape machines.
I was told that the tape was 12-14 inches wide and moved from one roller to another roller, like a window blind. It had 101 tracks. You moved the head-stack to select the track you wanted. In 1965 I visited WGUS-1380, a country music station Augusta, GA (near Ft. Gordon). WGUS used 2 of these Gates Spot Tape machines - mounted above the TTs. Noisy - they had 'thumps' and 'bumps' noises as the tape stopped and re-wound. Any open MIC would pickup the noise - a clever jock would work-around those noises by playing something else and having the MIC off.
From: Garry Brill
Sent: January 30, 2014
Subject: Carts
Harvey,
The color meant nothing....just different manufacturers.
GarryB
From: Charles Park Sweward
Sent: January 30, 2014
Subject: Carts
Harvey,
I don't think the colors meant anything except marketing. I could be wrong but I didn't use many colored carts. Could have been a quick way to tell the length. The writing on the edge of the cart sometimes was hard to read. The small size would go from 10 seconds to 15 minutes. Largest went to an hour. 7.5 IPS.
Best,
Park
From: Harvey Germinder
Sent: January 30, 2014
Subject: Carts
Harvey Geminder
From: Garry Brill
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Carts
Good Morning Steve. Have a grey-brown-red and blue cart I can send you....note, they are NOT new, and were taken out of production back in 1999 when I retired from radio.
If you want them, no charge for the carts, just postage and let me know how you want them sent.
GarryB
From: Charles Park Steward
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
Here are some photos of old broadcast equipment along with an ITC cart machine.
http://videopark.com/oldbroadcast.htm
Best,
Park
From: David McCall
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
If I recall, broadcast carts were very similar to 4 track consumer carts. As mentioned, the track arrangement was different. Another difference was the speed; broadcast carts ran at 7.5 ips, 4 tracks ran at 3.75 ips, 8 tracks were 1 7/8 ips. They all had issues with lubricant and became sticky and jammed eventually.
There were broadcast style carts [in] larger shells. Provided by Musak and some others. They may have run at 3.75 ips though.
Thanks
David McCall
From: Garry Brill
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Carts
I have three size carts. The big one will hold about an hours worth of programming the middle size one ,half hour and the smaller ones can run anywhere from 20 seconds up to 10 minutes
From: Jim White
Sent: January 29, 2014
Subject: Audio Carts
You got me....not reading what I sent.....it's a 'real' learning lesson....and I'll put that on a cart and send it to you!
Tanks Jim.
GarryB