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Project Jenny KLIK - 1st Inf Di v Women in Vietnam RELATED-- To AFVN To Saigon To Vietnam Further Afield Index
From: Dick Ellis
Dated: January 30, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
I remember when Canada made all services wear the same uniform to save money....that died quickly! Specialist/Sergeant
dickie
From: Bobby Sullivan
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
I know what you mean, Steve. I noticed that too. But when I was on Fr. Rucker attending an event for my Army son, they kept calling me Sergeant Major and treated me like royalty.
Bobby S., CMSgt, USAF, Ret (of course)
From: Bob Morecook
Dated: January 30, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
Hi Frank I think the problem was with snipers. Aim for the guy with rank on shoulder top would have been good practice in the mind of the enemy.
Bob M
From: Steve Pennington
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
As a retired Chief Master Sergeant, I have to smile when I go onto the Everett Naval Station and the gate security folks don't quite know what CMS/E9 means.
Steve
From: Dick Ellis
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Go Navy
I have been asked many times what makes US Navy and Coast Guard Chiefs so special.... here's your answer:
ADMIRAL WILLIAM "BULL" HALSEY ON CHIEF PETTY OFFICERS!
At the end of WWII, all the towns and cities across the country were looking for a "Hero" to celebrate America's victory with.
Los Angeles chose Admiral Halsey and had a ceremony on the steps of the LA County courthouse to honor America's hero and at the end of it when Admiral Halsey was leaving, they had a line of sideboys.
The sideboys were active duty and retired Chief Petty Officers that had been brought in from all over the country who had served with Admiral Halsey at one point in their careers.
Admiral Halsey approached one of the retired Chiefs, and they winked at each other.
Later on that evening at a reception for Admiral Halsey, one of the civilian guests at the event asked the Admiral about the wink he shared with the Chief.
Admiral Halsey explained,.......
"That man was my Chief when I was an Ensign, and no one before or after taught me as much about ships or men as he did. You civilians don't understand. You go down to Long Beach and you see those battleships sitting there, and you think that they float on water, don't you?"
The guest replied, "Yes, sir, I guess I do."
To which Admiral Halsey stated,......
"You are wrong. They are carried to sea on the backs of those Chief Petty Officers."
From: Ed Sharpe
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
You get a bunch of Navy Chiefs together and they can raise some hell. I was at a retirement party for a friend who was a Navy Chief. Many Chiefs joined in... what a party! By the way when I was USAF and had three stripes in 1973, we were called Sargent... got to go to the NCO Club etc... some time earlier they were called Airmen.... Then now they are again called Airmen.... I was glad at the time I was in I got to be called Sargent. Any other comments on the USAF rank changes? I never understood why it was changed... but was glad to be called Sargent.... It sounded cooler!
From: Steve Pennington
Dated: January 30, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
During the McPeak era in the Air Force, his ideas included changing the uniforms. He wanted sleeve braid on officers cuffs like the Navy, with shoulder boards, changed the color of enlisted chevrons to blue and white, changed the Class A uniform to a 3 button blouse without pockets. We referred to it as the (hated) McUniform. Stripes were removed from the BDU uniform as was collar insignia for officers, and replaced by what was called the Aircrew Style Name Plate, similar to the ones used on flight suits. The problem was, you had to get within a couple of feet to know whether to salute a person or read their name. The plan to fix that was to have officer name and rank printed in gold and enlisted in silver. About that time the insanity was mitigated by bringing back enlisted stripes and officer collar rank and name and Air Force tapes over the pockets. I shudder when I remember those days and think of the money wasted.
SLP
From: Ken Kalish
Dated: January 31, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
Bohunk is slang for Bohemian. Like our French- Canadian guy was called French and one German was Kraut. Hammerschmidt was called... well, it wasn't Smitty.
Ken
From: Bob Peetz
Dated: January 31, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
Mekong Delta – Brown Water Navy – VAL-4 Black Ponies – NSA Binh Thuy
We shared the base with the HAL-3 Seawolves.
Saluting anybody identified that person as an officer. Rank on shoulder, collar or hat – so no saluting for 18 months.
It was hard re-adjusting when you left VN. Got a butt chewing when I waved at an ensign at Treasure Island.
From: Steve Pennington
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
Great story!
From: Dick Ellis
Dated: January 29, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
Thank you Ken...we crossed over for several months. Such an easygoing gentleman. He used to just shake his head and smile when I saluted him in the hall at AFVN. Spec (E-5)
dickie.
From: Dick Ellis
Dated: January 31, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
I worked as a kid at a college snack shop called the Bohunk.....
From: Frank Rogers
Dated: January 30, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
I hadn’t thought of that.
Frank
AFVN Group Conversations
From: Frank Rogers
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
No rank higher than Chief Petty Officer !!
At AFVN E7s other than Navy were just Sergeant, no distinguishing between E5, 6 or 7, but if you were a Navy E7 you were not called Petty Officer or Journalist. So on radio when you were Chief, they knew you were at least E7. On TV you could see rank. I was “reprimanded” after saying I was Army Sergeant First Class. I believe at one time (1967) Air Force Sr Airmen were Sergeants. Navy Chiefs also have a different uniform from other enlisted, other services just have more stripes.
FrankR
From: Ken Kalish
Dated: January 29, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
That was JOC James Gordon. He went on to be a television news anchor in San Diego.
Ken Kalish
Navy Chief and Ranks
January 2021
From: Frank Rogers
Dated: January 29, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
Ranks
More than 40 years ago I noticed the start of what I call “Creeping Egalitarianism” in rank symbols. Enlisted with rank on shoulders and not sleeve, especially in the Army. Who is easy to salute, for sure ?
FrankR
From: Frank Rogers
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
My younger brother should have been a Senior Chief but because of “administrative error” didn’t get it. When he asked why, he was just told sorry, too late to make correction.
Frank
From: Bob Morecook
Dated: January 31, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
Hi Ken Does Bohunk have a meaning? A Navy meaning maybe? best wishes
Bob
From: Randy Kafka
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
Hi Gang,
Yes, the Chief's are a group to be reckoned with. Just a note, there is also a Navy Senior Chief and a Navy Master Chief. Our own Joe "C" is a Master Chief. In Joe's last active position, I believe he was re-designated as a Command Master Chief https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_master_chief_petty_officer Other than Joe and myself, I'm not sure if there are any other Master Chief's in our group. If there are, I apologize for not knowing.
Hope everyone is well,
hang tuff,
randy
From: Dick Ellis
Dated: January 28, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief
I have told this story before.....when I first arrived in Saigon....the older black Chief ( sorry I am getting senile) was the overnight News Director and as we arrived on the armed bus in the morning, they were headed home. I greeted him every morning with a sharp salute and a “Good morning, Sir!” I had been in the Army for a total of 8-months and all of that at Ft.Bragg where you saluted a fire hydrant if you walked by it. The Chief stopped me and quietly pulled me aside one morning, explaining he was a Navy Chief and not an officer. I explained that if he had on a kaki uniform with rank on the collar and not the sleeve, he was to be saluted! As a joke, I saluted him every day until the day he went home! What a great Gentleman.
From: Frank Rogers
Dated: January 29, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
Ranks
More than 40 years ago I noticed the start of what I call “Creeping Egalitarianism” in rank symbols. Enlisted with rank on shoulders and not sleeve, especially in the Army. Who is easy to salute, for sure ?
FrankR
From: Ken Kalish
Dated: January 31, 2021
Subject: Navy Chief & RANKS
The brown water troops (like me and heavies and Seals and 9th ID) wore our rank as black insignia on the collar of our jungle greens. Once in a while a shavetail would show up out there on the water with gold on the collar. Those folks learned fast that the ignominy of looking like the enlisted people was a small price to pay to avoid attracting angry bees. The only time we saluted was in formation at home base.
When Admiral Zumwalt showed up for a visit on our boat, the first thing we asked him to do was to remove his stars. A very proud Lieutenant started to scold us for not observing the usual pomp of being around an Admiral, but our boat captain (a 2nd Class GMG) interrupted him and said “You told me to bring him back alive.” The Admiral did everything Pappy (who was on his third tour) asked of him, such as standing behind the coxswain’s shatter shield. Our one sign of deference was to use “sir” whenever we spoke to him.
When we started our merry-go-round the Admiral asked why we were observing defensive protocol so close to our dock and Pappy pointed at the French restaurant in Vinh Long from which “Rockets” Postal had been shot at with B-40s three times in the last month. That’s how BM1 Postal got his river name. We all got one. Our boat captain was Pappy, our engineman was Monkey, our supplemental gunner was Scooter, and I was Bohunk.
Ken Kalish