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Project Jenny KLIK - 1st Inf Di v Women in Vietnam RELATED-- To AFVN To Saigon To Vietnam Further Afield Index
AFVN Group Conversations
From: Steve Pennington
Dated: October 2, 2017
Subject: Why John Del Vecchio Didn't Like Ken Burns Version of the Vietnam War
Very comprehensive. I thik he nailed it.
SLP
From: Jae Cluff
Dated: October 3, 2017
Subject: Del Vecchio Commentary
Okay, since several are weighing in, I guess I will.
I thought this to be as factual and accurate a Vietnam documentary as I've ever seen or read. I perceived Burns as attempting to cover every aspect of this "war" as detailed as possible. I got chills watching certain portions, and I didn't miss a minute.
I realize there are those who find fault (yours truly included) with any historic piece such as this, and I respect that. But, I'm definitely not one of them here. Great series, Ken Burns.
Preston
From: Steve Sevits
Dated: October 2, 2017
Subject: Why John Del Vecchio Didn't Like Ken Burns Version of the Vietnam War
I felt the Ken Burns series was one sided and omitted balance. Frankly the presentation appeared to me to be anti-American propaganda. Mr. Burns' creation will stand as the landmark example of the "official" interpretation of Vietnam for all the world to see. We are not better off for this.
Steve
From: Paul Kasper
Dated: October 1, 2017
Subject: Vietnam, The Series by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick
[Note: This was converted to a PDF due to its length. Webmaster]
From: Bob Peetz
Dated: October 3, 2017
Subject: Del Vecchio Commentary
And ?
I was in-country a few weeks short of six years and married a lady from there who lived with the war for 26 years. I found this two-part article that touches on some of the things I thought.
Be skeptical of Ken Burns' "The Vietnam War" Part 1 Part 2
From: Harry Ettmueller
Dated: September 17, 2017
[Taken from Facebook]
Down through the years the media/leftist myths about Vietnam became "facts" and Burns merely reinforces those same myths.
These run from who fought and died to who scored higher in battlefield accomplishments.
Most angering is the conclusion that the war did not accomplish it's goals because of the battlefield acumen of the Communists and lack of this in the American and ARVN fighting men. This was was not decisively won because the primary battle was fought in the media, on the campuses and in the halls of Congress and the true battlefield was ignored as those determined to defeat us captured the flag of the loudest voice.
Twas over the hearts and minds of American civilians this war was fought and not over the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese, Lao and Cambodians (Khmer).
Does Burns fix these myths?
No, he intentionally does not and in the end merely reinforces them with a lengthy propaganda peace.
XPW VIETNAM
From: Nancy Smoyer
Dated: September 14, 2017
Subject: Preview of Burns/Novick Documentary
Yesterday I viewed a 60-minute preview of snippets from various episodes of the documentary at the Vet Center. I went into it with high hopes that they got it right. I'm not sure.
The following is my take on it, so all may not agree with my own slant on things. I also have a very bad memory so I took notes, which I hope were correct.
It started out poorly with almost the first words being "it ended in failure." Whether you agree with that or not, it seemed a prejudicial way to start and certainly a way to get hackles up, like mine. That section goes on to say something about bad decisions made by 5 presidents, and other words I wrote down were "went badly wrong" and "who to blame." As I say, a poor start.
Another gripe I had was that although they showed (twice) the point-blank killing of the man by General Loan (do I have that name right?), they didn't thoroughly explain the background which as I understand it, he had just killed a couple of people close to General Loan. Feel free to correct me on that.
Throughout the snippets they spoke with many North Vietnamese who talked about how difficult it was for them with losses of life and deprivations and bombings. They also talked about how their government propaganda lied to them by never telling them how many people were dying, especially after Tet. The film showed the NVA/VC deliberate killing of civilians after Tet.
There were historical aspects too-- the Tonkin episode, the '69 Moratorium marches all over the country, followed by a speech from Nixon which resulted in a poll saying 68% of the country were a silent majority supporting the war effort, which I never knew.
There are graphic combat, wounded men scenes.
A veteran who is a friend, John Musgrave, spoke but only about what it was like to be at Con Thien in '67 (with 1/9), saying they were like fish in a barrel, and reading in a newspaper that described CT as being like the Alamo, not exactly hope-inspriring. John was with VVAW after the war, but they didn't show any of his comments about that which I'm quite sure come later.
I was very tense the whole time, not knowing what was coming, how it would affect me, wanting to like what they'd done but being skeptical. I don't know how any of us can stand to watch all 10 or whatever there are episodes, but I feel I must.
Nancy
From: Michael McNally
Dated: October 2, 2017
Subject: Why John Del Vecchio Didn't Like Ken Burns Version of the Vietnam War
A former co-worker at CICV and MACV in 1967-1968 alerted me to this opinion piece by John Del Vecchio, author of The 13th Valley.
Burning History: The Fallacy of Inevitability and The Truncation of History
From: Rick Fredericksen
Dated: October 1, 2017
Subject: Vietnam Veterans of American Reviews the Ken Burns Documentary
From: Peston Cluff
Dated: October 13, 2017
Subject: The Vietnam War Miseducates America | RealClearDefense
Thanks for the follow-up, Ron. If you get the chance, give the documentary a chance by watching the ten episodes. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Preston
For a few more comments about The Vietnam War go to the discussion on Ngo Dinh Diem.
From: Ron Turner
Dated: October 13, 2017
Subject: The Vietnam War Miseducates America | RealClearDefense
Preston, Apparently my Ia Drang comments was easily read wrong - the 7-1 troop ratio troops were on the ground at Ia Drang not the war in general and had nothing to do with kill ratios. To make sure I'm understood: we (the USA), at Ia Drang, beat the NVA when they had seven times the number of soldiers in the battle. My comment was to show how our possibly best moment, combat wise, was minimized on PBS. I usually don't waive credentials, but will do so in reply; I lived in East Asia for twelve years with multiple visits to RVN - only the last one with AFVN.
Regards, Ron
From: David Pinto
Dated: October 4, 2017
Subject: Vietnam documentary leaves out context, America’s global war on communism
From: Bob Morecook
Dated: October 13, 2017
Subject: The Vietnam War Miseducates America | RealClearDefense
Hi Preston,
Guidelines for this site provide for FULL DISCUSSION of Vietnam. We were there. Its the one thing for sure we CAN talk about No problem, friend.
Bob M
From: Jae Cluff
Dated: October 13, 2017
Subject: The Vietnam War Miseducates America | RealClearDefense
Should've watched more episodes, Ron.
Five years in country and four at the network gave me -- and many of you -- an opportunity to see how first-hand censorship worked with regard to the we/they kill ratio. Remember the "four o'clock follies"? You are absolutely right when you point out "we" had more kills than "they" did, but the ratio was far from accurate. Had we given true figures, which this special provides some details of, the negativism back more would probably have been worse, as if it wasn't bad enough.
We and the South were never going to win that war, mainly because of politics. You would have seen factual information regarding same had you watched more. Richard Nixon, who I really liked even with Watergate, now makes me sick! So does Henry Kissinger after hearing recordings of the two. When someone seems to care more about getting re-elected than the lives of American soldiers and our allies, there's a problem.
Sorry, Bob (Morecook), as this may be a little overboard for the AFVN site, but I had to vent.
Preston
From: Ron Turner
Dated: October 12, 2017
Subject: The Vietnam War Miseducates America | RealClearDefense
Dickie,
I agree with your post whole heartedly. The one episode I watched was extremely and skillfully one-sided. The single speaking South Vietnamese was not the most impressive available whereas the North/VC speakers were well-dressed and very well spoken representatives; there is no shortage of ARVN reps in the U.S. who look good and speak well. Even Ia Drang received a rather poor treatment pointing out the NVA did not have air support and were, like the U.S. using troops with no previous combat experience (I'm not so sure that was correct either). Hey folks the NVA was beat on the ground when they had a terrain advantage and a seven to one force advantage. Give me a break. Nothing the U.S. did was effective or good; everything the NVA/VC did was at least well intentioned, and the South Vietnamese were either ignored or maligned. All in all a PSYOPS approach to history. I quit watching after the first episode I did watch.
Regards, Ron
From: Ron Turner
Dated: October 26, 2017
Subject: Vietnam Veterans and the Documentary
Well put
Regards, Ron
From: Dickie Ellis
Dated: October 4, 2017
Subject: The Vietnam War Miseducates America | RealClearDefense
From a Vietnam buddy in South Carolina... I don't think I have read anything good about the series yet!!!
Dickie
From the buddy: Good critique of Ken Burns’ recent Documentary. I concur. Get the DVD, Ride The Thunder" for a true story of what happened in Vietnam. You will not be disappointed!
From: Jae Cluff
Dated: October 12, 2017
Subject: The Vietnam War Miseducates America | RealClearDefense
Well, here you go, Dickie. It was the best, most objective piece of work I have ever seen/read regarding the "war". I did not miss a minute, and did not see any "side" that did not get a chance to voice its opinion. Great job, Ken Burns.
Preston
From: Ken Kalish
Dated: September 14, 2017
Subject: Preview of Burns/Novick Documentary
Thanks, Nancy, for that Review
Ken Kalish
From: James Allingham
Dated: October 12, 2017
Subject: The Vietnam War Miseducates America | RealClearDefense
I agree wholeheartedly with Preston. It was a great undertaking by Burns et al.
As a Kent State alum who was in country when the shootings took place, it became personal for me. And, the coverage of the Tet Offensive and attack on Hue gave me a real perspective of what John Anderson (a former colleague of mine after he was released from captivity) and the AFVN crew at the Hue Detachment faced. And, I certainly would not have traded places with Joe Cioken when the U.S. Embassy came under attack.
Plus, it gave a "human face" to an Asian enemy that I was indoctrinated to see only as "gooks".
I will buy the series for each of my 4 kids. It's a better history lesson than any of them ever got in high school or college.
I have no quarrel with anyone who disagrees.
Best regards to all.
Jim Allingham
From: Jae Cluff
Dated: October 3, 2017
Subject: Del Vecchio Commentary
Okay, since several are weighing in, I guess I will.
I thought this to be as factual and accurate a Vietnam documentary as I've ever seen or read. I perceived Burns as attempting to cover every aspect of this "war" as detailed as possible. I got chills watching certain portions, and I didn't miss a minute.
I realize there are those who find fault (yours truly included) with any historic piece such as this, and I respect that. But, I'm definitely not one of them here. Great series, Ken Burns.
Preston
(The) Vietnam War
Discussion following the showing of the documentary by Ken Burns
October and November, 2017
From: Dick Ellis
Dated: October 26, 2017
Subject: Vietnam Veterans and the Documentary
Bill Dixon is an old friend and very active here in North Carolina in the Veteran's Community. He hosts a weekly live streaming TV show about Vietnam. Here is the latest tonight if anyone would like to see it. I was on twice last year and we got a lot of call-in's and emails.... dickie
"Find the teaspoon of sand in the Burns Documentary Does anyone recall the Jim Roan anecdote about achieving a good life, where he compares it to baking a cake? One, he said, should put in all the very best agreements: the best eggs, the best milk, the best flour; and if possible they should be included in perfect proportion. The oven is preheated just so, so cooking can be precise. But then, at the very last moment before popping the pan into the oven, some people add to the batter a teaspoon of sand. The results turn out to be something completely inedible. This is what Burns has done with his series. There are many good elements included, many accurate stories told, but it is as if into every episode he has added a teaspoon of sand. (Quote from an article by John Del Vecchio)"